The Franchise Player: How to Pick the Right Brand and Win

Brandon (00:22) Hello. Hello, everyone. This is one of my favorite gentlemen in the world because we go back way back decades at this point. And to be able to

connect at various levels along the way is incredible. have brother Chequan Lewis. He is the president of Crunch Fitness. is, my opinion, one of the best all around folks that I know in that he's an academic. came out of the infamous Howard University. I'm repping Bison with the 4.0 GPA. Somehow he...

pops up on me. I'm at Harvard Business School. He's at Harvard Law School, just sneaking into the mix. He's younger than me, but somehow he hired me earlier in my career as well into my first people management role. I'm still trying to figure out, I'm scratching my head on that one, figuring out how he finagle that. But the long story short is he is a mastermind when it comes to business. He's been a leader at some of the most known brands before at president of Crunch Fitness. was COO of Pizza Hut US.

And we are diving into the franchise game specifically. Our audience here, you know, is all about exploring ownership paths. And for a lot of folks, ownership, you know, looks to them as, you know, how do I assess the risk? How do I understand, you know, what, what makes sense for me and franchising needs to enter the conversation because it is bringing a level of structure is bringing a level of support that I think folks want to hear about. But many folks are just kind of really.

look and understand what the game is about. So with that, I'll say Brother Chequan, man, is good to be here. Thank you for for joining us at the Owner Mode Summit. Yeah, I appreciate you having me, man. I love the conversation. Like you said, I love how far we go back. And one of the things we've always had in common is a passion for helping people become the best version of themselves. And back when we were in school, we're all like, I didn't really have a perspective or lens into franchise. I didn't understand it. I didn't view it as a viable pathway for

for myself, for my family, for my peers. And having lived this for a while now, I'm excited to talk to some folks about it because there's some real pathways, a possibility for people so long as they know about it. let's have some real talk on it. All right. So before we dive into franchise and you kind of touch on a little bit, which is you found your way into into franchises that are pretty, pretty well recognized, not just in the U.S., but across the world. You know, you have a background in, you know, I think you're a political science major.

if I'm not mistaken. You went to law school. You worked as an associate at a top firm out in Texas. And then somehow you made your way into this business world. And then particularly in a world that's heavy in franchising, how did you find your way into this space? Let's kind of maybe start there. Yeah, it's a good question because my story doesn't make sense unless I give people context for it.

The short answer, though, Brandon, is when I was at the law firm, was at Baker Botts in Dallas, had great practice, complex business litigation, doing great work. But there was something that was missing. at the company you and I used to work at, I had a chance to be live and had the ball in my hands. And I was like, OK, I miss not so much my work part of being a motion for a summary judgment or an argument or picking juries. I miss like the end result and on that. So what happened was I ended up going to Pizza Hut.

as an in-house lawyer and I totally switched up practice areas. They hired me as the franchise lawyer. Now, the only thing I knew about franchising was that there were franchises that I ate at a lot. I didn't have nearly context for it. So I didn't know about the transactional aspects of it, the contractual enforcement aspects of it. But my bet was if I can go and be the franchise lawyer at a franchisor, which is what Yum Brands does primarily, then I might be able to prove myself and show that I could work and be a part of the business. So.

I went and took that role. then quickly after that, they gave me Pizza Hut Express to run. And then I've not turned back. I've been on the sort of the straight business path ever since. All right. So let's unpack a little bit more. And I think it's important because we're going to spend a lot of time diving into, you know, the franchise model and the business model, et cetera, et cetera. But a lot of folks in our network are lawyers. And, you know, when you think about lawyers, there's the traditional path and there's also this traditional perception of them being

highly risk averse, right? Yeah. When did you decide that business was going to be where you were going to focus versus law? Because you obviously came out of law school, you know, going to a law shop. And I know people that have gone straight to business coming out of law school as well. How did that kind of decision to go into business? When did it come into play? So between Howard and Harvard, I worked at McMaster-Carr and had a chance to work in business management there. And so candidly, I could just juxtapose my four years

doing that work with the four years I'd had an incredibly sophisticated practice at Baker Botts and just ask myself the simple question, where do I feel more alive? And I felt much more alive working on and leading teams, trying to drive towards business results, knowing that I won or lost in a given day. I'm so grateful for the experiences I got out of being a lawyer. I'm a better problem solver, a better communicator, a better writer. Far fewer things spooked me as a result of having lived in an adversarial context for so long. But I knew it was time to make the jump to business when

The synapses weren't firing like they were when I had that job before. So that's why I set out to say, how can I take this legal experience that I have and pivot it into something where folks could see me as more than a lawyer, but perhaps a lawyer that could bring that into a commercial role and really deliver some outside results with people. that was kind of my quick map. Got it. And then you also mentioned something kind of sitting there and they gave me Pizza Hut Express to run and, know, and it was on from there. That is not a that is not an easy thing to say. I was positioned, you know, such that they gave me Pizza Hut Express to run.

What was it about you? And again, how old were you when you stepped in a run Pizza Hut Express? 35. OK, so you're a super young guy, right? And they're giving you some serious responsibility. What do you think it was about you or how you showed up to give you that opportunity or at least the perception is you can handle an opportunity like that at 35? Yeah, I love that question, because when I get an opportunity to mentor people, I tell them this story because it was critically important to me.

The type of lawyer that I was, I think is what gave me that opportunity. So I wasn't the lawyer in the corner. I was in the action. So when you ask people who they want to bring to a false hold when when they were scared about how we're going to launch this new physical restaurant asset, how we're going to go get this new incentive program across at the board and then sell it to our franchisees, how we're going to put new brand standards in place that make us faster and hotter and have higher quality products like I was there at the table for all those things with.

the COO with the CFO with the chief development officer. And so when I raised my hand, which was the other part of story, I raised my hand and said, I'd like to contribute in a different way. I had some skins on the wall and the business said, look, he's been rivaling us on the most important things we've already. Let him cook. Let him have this business and go running and cut my teeth on it. So that was the first time I had a full P&L and all these functions reporting up to me is like running Pizza Hut Express. Just for folks who don't know, Pizza Hut Express is our non-traditional business. So pizza in airports, college campuses, stadiums, movie theaters.

Oh, so people know that. Well, how big is that P&L just as a reference point for people who want to back there is probably 450 million dollar business, maybe 500 million dollar business, something like that. At the time, it was. Close to a thousand thousand units, something like that between Target and all of our other outlets. So it was a big jump for me in terms of what I was doing, but I felt ready for it because of my experiences. I had to work really hard. I stubbed my toe.

I scraped my knees on some things, but I'm a better leader because they took a risk on me and I took that risk on myself. before we move us on the franchise piece, just want to kind of recap a couple other things I picked up in that one, you know, P&L ownership is a huge bash for folks that are in corporate to be able to say you're responsible for delivering the overall business performance. And this was something that you knew and you raise your hand for that. then when you got and when you raise your hand, you had already built relationships with

Right. As the C-suite, the folks you would be ultimately accountable to and working with as that leader. And they knew that you were basically hands on, which was sounds like a differentiating factor, you know, versus lawyers who kind of maybe say at their desk and they're pointing out risks and telling you to be careful. Right. And you were saying, no, we're going to let's figure out what you're trying to achieve and let's be a partner. Right. Partners in this and then get going. OK. So you're running.

you know, uh, Pizza Hut Express, but the journey didn't stop there. Uh, tell us a little bit more around kind of what happened after that point at Pizza Hut. Yeah. So after Pizza Hut Express, I was in that role for two years or so, and then 2020 hit. And so 2020, we were in a really interesting moment and obviously American culture where we were dealing with, um, man, so many, they write the pandemic hit. So like, if you think about it, um,

The first thing that closed down were airports and people went away from school. And so like a lot of the places where Pizza Hut Express was physically immediately became child. So it was like an immediate pivot to try to figure out how do we make sure that that sticks and stands through that journey. But then also what's going on really interesting is an important time in our society, right? The murder of George Floyd, the murder of Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery. So much unrest that some folks were living in experience for the first time, but I knew about I grew up in and was not was no stranger to it.

Pizza Hut, to its credit, had always been really committed to trying to drive equity in our organization and in the communities that we operated. But 2020 became a time when we got really intentional around it. So what they asked me to do was to take on this role, which was the chief equity officer. It was a role I thought I wouldn't do at the time because I, you know, I'd spent so much time not wanting to be labeled as any certain thing that that felt wrong to me. But to the credit of the CEO of Yum at the time.

They said, look, we don't view you doing work that sits at the intersection of business and culture as a step off of your path as you climb here. We view it as essential to what you need to be as you grow as a leader here. So I spent time and just scrubbed in for the next two years in that role and got closer to the restaurants than ever understood the front line more than ever. Developed a deeper empathy for franchisees and learn how to make them see things other ways. Learn how to let their unique worldviews affect mine so we could.

move things strategically forward in the business, did work with partnerships, help sharpen our brand point of view and how we talk to our consumers. I did that for a couple of years and it was a massive learning experience for me. like what I've done at Pizza Hut Express was like, I've got to PNL, I've got to run all these functions. And then I stepped into this role where I'm like, like you have to take a step back and really be an enterprise leader in a way that a lot of people outside the organization wouldn't have understood. What that led to next, which seems like a frog on a page to people, but makes sense if you walk in the story was

My next role was the chief operating officer at Pizza Hut. And why that made sense to go from the chief equity officer to the chief operating officer was all I did was live in the guts of the business. I knew our consumers better. I knew our franchisees better. I lived alongside the frontline team. I understood our, what our consumers wanted to hear from us. And like, just made sense for me to step into that role, which at the time was the biggest professional challenge I'd ever have. And I don't know that I grew more.

in a two year period than I did as the COO at Pizza Hut. So that's kind of how that story came together. And how big is that business you're running as COO at that time? Oh, I mean, you know, Pizza Hut US is a multi-billion dollar business. So that was a real step up to the big leagues for someone that had been a lawyer, what, six, seven years before that? Yeah, no, it's impressive, man. You know, I saw I was looking, you know, from from the sideline. It was it was was rude new on, but.

You know, putting up big numbers on big teams, you know, is a beautiful thing to see. So now you hit this rare air of billion dollar P&L owner, right? COO of one of the most recognizable brands around the world. And, you know, you're you're 30s still 30s during this time. You're you're at a whole nother level of the game. How did crunch fitness kind of enter the enter the chat? Yeah.

It was a great surprise to me because at this point in time, Brandon, I was certain I was going to be a life threat young. I wasn't looking, but I got a call from a recruiter because they were ready to step into the next inning of their growth. And so, you know, the guy named Jim Rowley, it was really interesting. So my process, you know, normally you have all these meetings and you go up and like mine started with the CEO, Jim Rowley, and he helped craft a vision for me of a bring your unique skill sets here.

put the gas that you got in the engine of this company and work with me and I'll help you see around the corners you've not been around because you either have been in fitness for 30 years like he has or you haven't. Right. And when I took a step back and thought about, well, what do I think I've got a unique skill set? How can I generate alpha for business? And then what is it I really would love to spend my time doing? It really was fitness. Like that's who I was like in my in my quiet moments and the way I began and in days.

And so to be able to combine that with what I felt like had become a really unique skill set around franchising, having been the lawyer to this cultural leader, to COO. was like, if I can bring those together and partner with someone like Jim, who's going to mentor me and let me really have a lot to say about the future of this brand as the president of company. I thought it made a ton of sense. And so that's why we decided to take the job. And I am really happy that I did. Incredible. So what does it mean to be president of

a company. think a lot of people, they hear COO and they say, OK, they're running the business. They're responsible for putting the numbers and making sure that, you know, all the all the managers of the different piece of the piece of the business are working together to to deliver a result. As president, what did you walk into that stretched you beyond what you had been doing as a COO? So, you know, as a COO, let me let me put this way. The first job I think of any leader is to be a great coach. And so when I was the COO,

the talent that I coach was incredibly talented, but it was more junior than this now. So like, didn't have the COO reporting to me when I was president. That's the case now. I didn't have the chief development officer reporting to me, but like, that's the case now. So on and so forth. Right. And so the first thing was like, man, how do I make sure that my game is at a level where the people that I'm now coaching are getting the very best that they can get out of me? And so to coach what I was right when I left Pizza Hut, like out the gate was a bit of a stretch and a bit of a challenge. And

What it required for me was two things. One, really three things, probably. I'd say one was a real level of humility because like no matter how big the title was, you got to step in and like have enough humility to understand the landscape, to learn from other people and see what needs to be done before you jump in and just start doing stuff. It requires a level of authenticity. I earned the right with this title to be who I am and not really apologize for it. So I felt it.

incumbent upon me to bring that and lead with that. So there was no mistakes about who I am, how I tend to lead, what I thought my point of view could be. And then the last one was attentionality. So let people know I'm not here just to be here. I was brought here with mission. I was brought here with purpose. We're to be one team, one crunch and drive to the top of the hill and be the most consequential brand of fitness. And that's the journey that we set out on. So learn to lead in that way and then pick what to do first and bring the talent together and say, here's how we're going to do with a point of view and a tone of voice and a

all these other sorts of things, that was the big challenge, but it's been absolutely exhilarating and the results have certainly followed. Excellent. So we'll circle back on kind of future vision in terms of what you're building over at Crunch, but it's time to get to brass tacks, Chequan, which is this franchising game. As you mentioned, you've been a lawyer in this space. You've been an operator in this space. You've been the leader of people in this space and now you're president in a space.

you know, uh, you know, where the, the, the senior folks are now looking at you for guidance and support. So you've seen it all, but the folks that are attending today are people that may be working in a, in in a corporate job and they're thinking about ownership. They're thinking about, you know, I want to control, run, build a culture, hire, you know, take on the responsibilities that come with it, but also maybe get those financial rewards as well. And so these folks are in the exploration phase largely.

And a lot of them are thinking about, I buy a business? Right. You're hearing a lot now about business acquisitions, kind of heating up as a space with the silver tsunami. And then you hear a lot of people saying, franchise seems really interesting. So just at a fundamental level, how would you position franchising within the universe of entrepreneurial opportunities out there for folks with existing experience as a corporate professional? I think it's incredibly viable.

provided two things. You have the personality for it and you find a spot that makes sense for you. So just let me if you don't mind, let me just double click on that. So what does it mean to have the personality for it? I don't think franchising is for someone who says, give me your shield company X and let me cook, get out my way, do whatever with it. I think it's for someone who appreciates. You know what? A franchisor has done enough work to make this brand resonate at the top line that

I want to take it and I want to partner with that brand and then put my local flare on it or make sure I execute the heck out of the concept and really drive it and make it go. Right. So I think like that's sort of the first thing that makes some sense. So for someone that wants that, that's great. But if you are a founder personality or someone's like, you know what, I need to start my own thing and it's got to be uniquely me and the entire DNA has to be out of me. Franchising could be off because someone's done that work already, you know. And then what does it mean for it to be

sort of the right place or the right thing that works for you. I'd say that is where it's like, okay, so if I know I've got the right personality for where do I want to deposit, if you will, that blood, sweat and tears are going to come with being a really great franchisee. And the beautiful thing about franchising is there's a wide panoply of things that can offer you opportunities like that. Sometimes it's like, I'm personally passionate about this. You may find a brand that makes some sense. Sometimes like, you know what?

I'm not overly passionate about it, but I'm, I'm really good at understanding where there's a niche opening in the marketplace and someone's really exploring that right now. And I can go and if I have a repeatable model, I can go and do that and partner with somebody to grow it. So if those two things come together, I'd say it's a really unique opportunity to bring whatever level of capital is appropriate for that opportunity to the table and generate some outsizes earns for yourself and your family that are not always so obvious when you're starting something and it's not resonated yet. And it hasn't had the right.

to grow geographically and grow in terms of units. I like that, because you kind of start off by saying, here's who is not for, right? And you're saying if you're the type of person, then this might not be a good fit for you. And I think that is a clear kind of delineating factor that people should really think through. There's also this piece, and we talked about this a little bit earlier before we started recording, that risk is a complicated topic, particularly for folks who, you you name it.

They might come from underrepresented backgrounds where success, the pinnacle success has already been achieved by just having a high paying corporate job. Right. The second piece might be, you know, you might be later in your career, you might have higher expense base, you might have kids. Right. But you also may have built that nest egg up that you might need to, to start a franchise or to invest in a franchise concept. Right. Another piece of it might be, you know, this idea of timing. And so.

not having to go through this exploration phase and building phase could be good because I'm looking to get a playbook I can execute and in 10 years have created enough value for myself where I can look at that milestone and say, you know, this is an accomplishment for me. How should someone who's evaluating franchise think of risk holistically, you know, kind of the maybe the the preconceived notions that may be true, maybe some that are less true. How would you, you know, advise someone to kind of think through this thought process around risk?

Yeah, I would think I would think well, maybe first a general comment and then a couple of dimensionalized thoughts. The general comment I would say, and I say this as someone who has. I don't know if struggle is the right word, but certainly has has had to navigate personal risk aversion at points in my life. Like I didn't grow up taking tons of risks. I didn't grow up with access to capital. It me feel like the world was my oyster. And then I went into a career where I literally made a living

after everything had gone wrong between people at the gate, right? Like as a lawyer. What I'd say is the thing I've come to really admire about my franchise partners in Pizza Hut, my franchise partners in Crunch, on some level, they are people, especially the most successful ones. They are people who took risks. Now, the risks to them may not have been the same as the risks to you and me or whatever, know, our audience, whatever your background stories are. But I've yet to see a story that I've really admired that didn't have risk.

in the soil in it. And so I hope that is an invitation to at least say, all right, let me forget the idea that something is going to be risk free that has a chance to be special, and then step into the risk analysis. And so then I think about risk probably along a couple of dimensions. The first one is just like the risk to you from a capital perspective, the risk to you from an interpersonal perspective, and then the risk to you from like emotional perspective or intellectual perspective. So from a capital perspective, that piece is straightforward. We'll probably talk more about that like

you either have capital to do certain things or you don't. You have survival capital or you don't, which is not always the same as startup capital, right? So like those things, I think a little more straightforward, especially for this audience. Well, I think just talked about less and I've seen it when it goes really well. And I've seen it when it goes poorly for people, the interpersonal risk, whether you're married, single, whatever, like most of us are in relationship with someone. And what happens when you take risks, particularly in franchising and sometimes it's a

smashing success story. Oftentimes it is, I'd say. But what happens is that journey that you start, it invariably involves your wife or your spouse or your brother or your partner or your neighbor or your friends, somebody that you're cool with. so especially if you have a personality where things spill outside of you or you affect environments or the ways that things are going in your work life affect your life life. It's worth thinking about and navigating because

when you're a franchisee, you're an entrepreneur that doesn't really get to turn it off, if you will. And the same way I don't get to turn it off, right. And so you got to think about that. And then the last piece is that emotional sort of intellectual risk, right. And I think this cuts two ways, Brandon, because one is like, there are some people who are like, man, what if I had taken the chance? And so not taking the risk can be a life of regret for some people. And then there some people who took the chance and they're like, I wasn't diligent.

And so when it went wrong, they feel really bad. And there's some people who took the chance and it went wrong, but they were diligent like, know what? I can live with that. So that's for the for the audience to navigate. But I think those are probably three ways or three dimensions along which you analyze risk that are worth thinking about when you step into the space. I love the way you broke that down, because basically what you said is, look, if you want to be great, right, if you want to build something that is significant, risk is a necessary ingredient. So get comfortable with that. Yeah. And if you're taking risk,

these three areas, whether you want to it or not, are all very important. Doesn't matter if it's franchising risk, any type of entrepreneurial risk is going to involve these relationships, this mental battle that you're going to face, et cetera, et cetera. But then there was also this kind of element of some of it is a little bit more cut and dry. so the next kind of question is around evaluating the universe of options. think a lot of people are really surprised with

the sheer amount of franchise opportunities out there. It was a quality. In fact, another gentleman was speaking at the summit. He is in the hotel franchise business. Right. A lot of people don't even know that you can get into the hotel franchise business. And so laundromats on the store, the McDonald's you pull up into, et cetera, et cetera, all franchise. Repair car wash. Like, yeah, it gets, it gets, it gets pretty nutty. And so how would you advise someone who was like, okay,

I think I am wired. You know, I do want some structure. I'm creative, but put me in a box. I don't, you know, I like the box. That makes me feel good about myself. Yeah. But I'm overwhelmed by the sheer number of options. How would you advise someone to just think through a structured approach to evaluating what might be interesting for them across the sea of franchise and opportunities? Yeah. Okay. I think I would start in two ways, Brandon and

Well, let me say what I mean first and then let me give you a sort of a caveat. Because the opportunities are so vast, you've got to focus your thinking in some way. So I think two quick cuts are this. One is personally interesting to me. And then what might be personally useful to me? And they're not always the same thing, right? So let me give you an example. I'm not denigrating any type of work, but like fitness is interesting to me, but

Pool repair is also personally useful to me, right? The reason why I think that's a good way to at least start the cut is because if you just, if you try to list from top to bottom all the franchising opportunities and page through it, you probably in the field position by the time you got to the letter B, right? So at least you start to get a focused universe that can help you work outward from there. The caveat I was gonna make though is I'm not saying go franchise, go be a franchisee and a.

topic that you're passionate about because you're passionate about it. Right. Like that could be it, but there's an overlay. We'll probably talk about it. Like I think probably two to three clear things you want to look at, but that'd be the first place how I start. And if I maybe add in third, it'd be. If I'm a person that's reading, I'm in business or I'm paying attention to the world, like what seems to be an emerging category where folks are doing things that break through. You may see it in the news. You may see it as use cases in your life or your kids life or your friends life.

one of those three cuts is probably the first place to start. So you at least can start to decide where you want to double click and then do the deep work and the deep work may lead you out of those categories, but it's the first place you need to go to start looking at thoughtfully. Got it. So interestingly, you useful to you and future forward in some way. Yeah. You know, more, more, more promise ahead than behind. Yeah. So to speak. Okay. So now, okay. I'm looking at, I'm looking at

opportunities that kind of fall into this criteria. Let's talk numbers for a second from the perspective of people will be ruled out of certain categories based on the amount of capital they have available to them. Maybe you can share a little bit around, know, again, you're talking real estate, you might be able to find a partner who's going to put up the money, you do the work. Does that does that play out a franchise and maybe give us a little bit of the fundamental construct around how capital is generally raised and if it's coming dressed from that individual or they can bring

a consortium together, et cetera. And then, you know, give us a sense of like maybe what type of opportunities are available to folks based on capital levels that they've been able to kind of accumulate themselves. Yeah. So the the most straight in my experience, the most straightforward cut is going to be like what your net worth is, what your liquidity is. Right. And obviously, everyone knows the difference in those two things. But it's important to point out that when you start to talk about.

concepts with really high build out costs and really high upfront costs. Your point around a consortium approach to how your capital stack comes together is well received in a lot of context. So the benefit of your own net worth of your own liquid assets or your partners, right? Because like what I most often see a very religious see one man, one woman as the franchisee. It's usually a group of three to four people to say nothing of institutional capital yet who are coming together. We're vetting them. We're looking at them. That was true here.

true at Yum. So like that, that is very common. That wouldn't shock a franchise or to see that. And we're just looking at what do you have? What do you have access to? And someone would map that to what we know about upfront costs and what we think a successful franchisee would need in terms of how many units you want to hit in terms of how fast you could grow and get out the ground. So that's like one piece of the analysis. But I don't think people should fret if they're not a highly liquid multimillionaire either. Right.

there are both debt and equity approaches that are quite fascinating, interesting that I've seen. Right. So you may have access to a SBA loan. You may have access to a family office. You may have access to a private equity group out the gate, probably not as common for some of them have a beachhead existing right now. But there are a lot of pools of capital that are open to people in the the size of the pool of capital you have access to, I think varies directly with

the exposure you would want to have to high upfront cost opportunities. So just like for an example, it is more expensive to build a 45,000 square foot fitness club than it is to build an 8,000 square foot restaurant, right? And so if capital and often is, is a gating feature for you, you can start to think about what you have, what you have access to and refract it through the lens of these varying build out costs to ask yourself, well,

all of the things constant, what might make them more sense for me in terms of the growth path that I perceive for myself and connect the financial dots that way. Is that helpful? That's very helpful. And if anything, give us a little bit more by way of analog. So, you know, maybe to the extent that you could say like by net worth, I mean, if you're a million or lower, you probably are not going to be able to do a, you know, fast food concept that, you know, is a recognizable name. If you can try to give us some sense of what you feel.

people should kind of set their expectations around if they are operating themselves. Maybe with the generally available financing, like an SBA loan, et cetera. Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's hard to speak for everybody, but I would say if I just paint in broad brushes. Well, let me let me give you this. Let me give you a comment and then answer this. Like one good thing is like the groups that are serious about franchising.

will help you understand like it. So say you've done this research and you're like, OK, I landed in the category that is interesting to me and I found five things. There's a 99 percent chance you can go to their website and they'll say, hey, for folks that are looking to get in here, the upfront minimum requirements that we're looking at. just know you can go get answers to that and let that govern whatever brand you get interested in govern more than what I'm going to say here. What I'll say is usually the more recognizable the brand.

the higher the net worth requirements because people have the right to expect and ask more of that. And you take more seriously who you give your shingle to, if you will. And so I do think, you know, this idea of a million net worth is a is an interesting and oftentimes applicable barometer I've seen for a lot of these concepts. I'd say. That is not the only reason why I'm hesitant to overly commit to that is it's not perfectly dispositive and that

And that's really important because I think people get so discouraged by what they think are bright line rules here. And so just now, like, yes, if you, if you, if you are a million in liquid assets, there's a good chance that you can have a great conversation with a lot of different brands about some meaningful level of growth. Now, if the build out costs for one unit in a brand is 5 million, as opposed to 750,000, for example, right. Then like, that's going to be a smaller conversation or perhaps a less interesting conversation for you.

and for the franchise or, but I think you're talking when you get in that sort of millionaire. But for people who are small in that there, there are a lot of concepts, like particularly in the service industry space, that people have no idea of franchise. Cleaning services, pool repair services, car repair services, where the requirements get smaller in that respect. So don't be discouraged by where you are today. Look at where you are today and map it to the things you're interested in. Let that be the answer as opposed to a rule that anyone tells you, including me. Got it.

And a lot of folks in the audience are they already in a high earning category, you know, and there's some folks who will very soon be there. Maybe they're opposing the NBA and they're on their way. Right. So I think a lot of folks are kind of thinking about it from maybe not right now, but three to five years. Yeah. I'm putting together my playbook. Help us understand the relationship between your net worth, your liquid capital and your ability to tap debt to, you know, to get the funding you need to build out a concept, et cetera. So.

Obviously the debt you get is relative to what the business will likely do and also your own liquidity and resources available. How should folks think about just the general numbers in terms of X amount of net worth, maybe 50 % of that would be considered, how much you can spend on this concept, the rest you need to be able to finance with the concept itself, et cetera. How should folks think about the overall amount of capital they actually are putting in to the business? Yeah. I mean, I'd say

You know, I will, I will look at my net net worth is just a, obviously a proxy for like what we think that you can tap the, the real quote, the easiest question is like, what's liquid and what can you go and get at without a lot of trouble? Right. And so when I look, when I look at people's liquid assets and it starts to be, you know, higher than 50 % of what I think the first build out cost thing would be, I would get pretty concerned. Right.

I would then go and say, all right. And obviously the cost of capital is its own thing, but then I'd say, all right, so what is it going to cost someone to sort of backstop themselves to be able to build it out? And by the way, folks should know a lot of franchisors, especially high growth franchisor are going to have relationships with banks and lending institutions that could be more efficient for you than if you went some of this route alone. So like that's part of reason to brand why I'm saying.

Don't be totally distracted by your net worth because sometimes if you're with the right franchise or they can connect to this, it's just like, if this concept believes in you, we know what it generally returns. If you're an average operator, we will de-risk the way that we view this. And then it gets really interesting from there. But so that, yes, the relationship between your liquid assets and your initial sort of first unit build out costs and you start to get over half of that, gets sort of heart burning. then, then that's what I would say.

Do you be sure you think you need to go with a loan because you can bring on actual partners and then you can bring on actual lenders and then do do the math that way. last thing I would say, though, is like the only thing I don't like relative numbers. I don't like absolute numbers that much is because that 50 percent on high build out costs is a different level of relative risk than it is on lower numbers, but on the lower build up costs because the risk of it is different. And then you have to factor in like margin level returns. Right. So

But I'm not trying to beat around the bush on the answer. want to, I want to share for folks all the different factors through which we should be thinking about these things. So you can put your personalized analysis together because what I can tell you is I personally know so many people who have looked at this in a way that I wouldn't have had the courage to look at it. And now they come to my meetings on private jets because they were able to put some of these things together as opposed to sort of my risk averse straight forward.

If it's not this, then it must be that, or I need to go sit down. So that's what's animating me answering this way. You put enough meat on the bones for people to get a sense of kind of what we're talking about. So now I've thought about, you know, what I'm passionate about. I thought about what's useful to me. I thought about what's forward facing, my net worth. I've built over the last 15 years. I'm here and I'm looking at, you know, sites now. I've narrowed it down to a few concepts and I'm starting to see what the requirements are. Okay.

There are shepherds in this game as well. Right. And so there's this, this, you know, these folks that are called franchise consultants that can help you navigate in this space. Can you share your, your views on how important it is to have a franchise consultant? Do you feel, you know, how are they incentivized to help you, you know, tell us a little bit around just kind of from your perspective, having been now an OG in the game, the importance of engaging with someone like a franchise consultant.

Look, I am I'm really hesitant. If I'm sitting in a seat of someone trying to go do this myself, I'm really hesitant about outsourcing sort of my conviction and my analysis. think they're interesting. Check with me points. But the quality of franchise brokers, I do think there is a wide range in that. Right. And so and you never know how people are incentivized. So let me let me let me say this way.

If someone is solely incentivized to generate you saying yes. Is probably less likely that they're going to be concerned about whether you are successful. If someone's incentivized to bring franchisees who feel really good in a franchise or has its success rate metric and is tied to that, it's kind of like a headhunter, right? Like as a headhunter, you don't go bring someone to a company because you think they're going to be, you know, an attrition number in three months.

What happens to your what happens to what you made if they leave? Right. So like you want to check out? I would just literally ask brokers, how do you pay? Just so I can understand if our incentives are perfectly aligned or not. So they can be useful to people who are flying blind. And could be useful generally, like the best intentioned If you're hearing some hesitation in my voice about how I feel about brokers, it's obviously like a lot of brokers have come to me and.

A lot of them have not been ones I found perfectly useful. What I found to be more useful is franchisees who have come to me through conversations with other franchisees who have done their own research or who have done their own site visits and have talked to team members. think talking to existing franchisees in particular is probably a better barometer than anything. So I want to belittle the idea of a broker entirely. Just like put that in a box and just

always know if your incentives are live and so on to know how to judge the advice that you get from them. And I would immediately pivot people to real conversations with people who are having to live and breathe in that world and in that concept. And what I found in both of my systems has been franchisees are really happy to speak with people who are thinking about coming and joining their ranks, because as the ranks of the franchise system grows, some contributions to marketing funding, your ability to take share of voice, all those other sorts of things. So I would go there because

the incentives are probably better line. Yeah. And so I'm hearing a few things in there. So generally speaking, incredibly, if I'm wrong, franchise consultants are paid based on you actually deciding to join a concept and become a franchisee. And so that's when they get paid. A lot of people would say that's a lot of incentives because they only get paid if I'm successful. And you're saying success is not becoming a franchisee. You're saying success is becoming a successful franchisee and there may not be as much

accountability there, they might just want to see you get a deal done. They get paid and they're out. That's the first piece. The second piece I'm hearing is there's no way around doing the work. If you are stepping into that franchisee role, there's a lot of work that you got to do. And if a franchise consultant creates the perception that they're going to do the research, they're going to vet the numbers, they're going to give you the sense of security that this is good investment, then you're sadly mistaken. Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah. So on the first point, I won't be as wordy this time on the first point, I'm saying check the incentives, check and make sure. Right. You know, if someone's incentives are aligned to be yours or not, and when you can ask them, hey, how like, what is a win for you in this and the win for them is not what is a win for you. And I would I would go ahead and define a win for the potential franchisee is success in the concept, not signing a franchise agreement, then.

Check that is Mr. Line. I think that's an issue and a big watch out. And then remind what was the second point? So I can hit that. No, the second piece was simply you can't get around doing the due diligence yourself. Right. So.

I love information. if a broker or someone has or a consultant has information, great, take it in. But it's just like school. Check your work. Check your work. This is you're taking the risk and you're likely doing it with grand ambitions for yourself and for your family. So put that amount of care and concern into the work that you do. All right. So let's talk about this work. So you again, haven't seen it as a lawyer, you know, from a top institution and as a leader at top.

franchise, know, franchise or what would be your 80 20 like the 20 % you know, masterclass on where someone who is really considering getting to this game should focus you mentioned, you know, talking to a bunch of folks that are already active franchisees of the concepts you're exploring. Give us, know, give us the game there. Yeah, I mean, look, I think there are three big things I would focus people on. The first one is

the unit level economics, like because you can't you can't budget. Right. And so you can find an item 19 of a franchise disclosure document. So just to jump to this. Look, I think entities are critically important. They were put in place to protect people just like the first time franchisee, the person who's taking this risk. Like it's it is literally an example of the government stepping in and saying, like, let me make sure you have what you need to know what you're doing and why and how. the first thing in every and every concept has to have the FDD.

published on their website for you to download and evaluate. That's right. And if they're going to and if anyone's going to talk to you about financial performance and their concept, they need to have an item 19 disclosure that talks about it. And they tell you what we're showing you as our top 20 percent or we're showing you things of this vintage or that like they have to tell you what they're disclosing and why. But that's a really good example, because I think the first thing is, what is the unit level return? What does that tend to look like? Like that's that's to me is the first thing. The second thing I'd ask is, has the growth in this group

and this brand been disciplined or chaotic. So.

A judgment free commentary I'd offer is planfully growing in a way that makes sense is a great barometer, I think, of a brand that is trying to grow discipline. Right. And then sometimes brands can grow explosively and that still be a great barometer of health. But there can also you want to be mindful of potentially undisciplined or. Or. I see for that. Are you looking at the debt that the franchise is taking on? Are you looking at just.

the sheer speed of openings and making an assumption that you just can't open that fast and validate that the concept is working at that speed. But how would people be able to really gauge what's considered out of control growth? mean, I would look from year to year, you know, and see, like, what have you been doing the last five years? And if numbers seem out of lockstep with other numbers, then, I would love to understand from a franchisee perspective, what are you doing to support this level of growth?

Right. And so if you're hearing things like, we put in this new support structure, we resource this differently. We've introduced these new functions. Like that's a great example because it connects to my third point, which is, mean, in the final analysis, the support for operators is critically important. Like the way in which a franchise or engages with you wraps around all these things. I say a third because it holds the previous two. think unit level economics are often a

are often a proxy for the level of support and engagement that you have so long as you're being reasonably diligent as well. And then that level of growth should be supported by a franchise or its ability to engage as well. So for me, it'd be your level of economics, the way growth is approached, and then how operators are supported once they're inside the brand. And that's why conversations with other franchisees are important as well, right? I love it when folks come in and talk.

to my best friend. they keep it? Are they known for keeping it real? Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, they don't owe me anything. You know what I mean? Like, you you you I think I think you can earn first of all, they keep it real, because that's why I know entrepreneurs to be. And, you know, I think the best franchisors view it as their job to earn the good things that a franchisee will say when they're not around.

work, the work and the work and the strategies and all these things that you effectuate as a franchise or support. Got it. So let's go down deeper. So let's talk unit economics for a second, you because you kind of laid out this framework to evaluate concepts. How should folks think about unit economics? Because I would imagine, you know, it's like a company, if your earnings are this and you know, that sounds great. But everything comes down to the nuance at the end of the day. Right. And so just give us kind of like a sense of what

you believe from a unit economics perspective, good looks like and what bad looks like that could be applied to kind of any, any concept. And it sounds like there's inevitable diligence within the franchise disclosure document that you need to look at the fine print and say, okay, this applies to what where, but kind of give us a sense of like how to really think about that. Yeah. I mean, so I'm less likely to say this number is good and that number is great. But what I'd say is like,

there are realities inherent in the industry that you choose to be in. Right. So let's take QSR, for example, historically speaking, setting aside a couple of concepts, the margins are going to be thinner in QSR. I mean, quick service restaurants. Right. So the margins are going to be thinner in that. Then you're going to see in maybe something like fitness or some of these other spaces. Right. And so it's not so much that just because a margin may be thinner in one category that it's

per se worse is that it introduces a different question. So what's my first check would be in the industry that I'm in, how do the returns compare with other with peer groups in that, right? So you can have a, know, let's just use round numbers, for example, say you're in an industry where the returns are on average 10%, 10 % marks the unit level, right? Which is true in some cases. And the concept that you're really passionate about the average is 3%.

That's a that's a that's a check with me point, right? I want to understand that. And I want to see the top and the bottom and understand why that's the case. But say it's but say it's in that number where it's like 10 percent, right. And it's less than what you're seeing in other categories. Then you have this question of like, OK, well, I probably need to roll up more units for this to be a viable play for me because I want to buy myself a job by having one unit that returns something like 10 percent margins. Right. So then it's this question of like, OK.

What do need to be vital if it's eight units that I need to probably be viable and not have to be, you know, the manager of this restaurant or the area coach of this restaurant? How does that intersect with my capital question? So like that's how I look at that there. Then you go to other higher margin concepts. And that's where sometimes you may see much more robust buildup costs. So it's like, man, there's a really, if I do it right, there's a really fruitful return on the end, but it's going to ask a lot more of me.

Maybe I'll need to build 50 units to try to get to what feels like a home run for me. But can I really see my way through a multimillion dollar build out? And so they introduced the other question. So for me, it is be mindful of where the concept sits in its peer group in terms of unit level returns. And then look at that against what your build out costs are. And then ask yourself, what does getting to good look like for me? And how can I step through that with my current financial situation? Be it my own liquid assets, the people that I brought together, whatever is in the capital.

capital stack that I'm using to raise the life. I love that because you're kind of talking about these trade offs, right? You might see lower margins, but it might be more accessible. You might see higher margins, but you need to invest more upfront. so being clear on where you feel more comfortable playing is important. Another piece you brought up, I think is worth double clicking into a little bit more is what is your long term plan for this thing? And I have a lot of people I talk to who say, I'm to buy a subway and I'm going to, you know, I'm not going to work in it. I'm going to hire somebody.

help you understand the realities that should be debunked a little bit around this idea of franchising part-time, getting a low margin franchise and getting one and calling it a day. Help us understand the different models that you would say operate, whether it's a substantial one that you can step into, which you have to run it, one where maybe it's one that you don't have to run it, but it's a more upfront cost, and maybe a version where

You're looking at this thing as a five to 10, you know, kind of location thing out the gate. And that's how you're approaching it. Like help us think through, how we should be thinking about the, the, the medium to long-term strategy as we inform getting started. So you need to think about, I would be thinking about what does this, what type of cash does this need to throw off for me and why, if it needs to throw, if it needs to throw off enough cash for you to not do what you're doing for your job today.

That's like a really, that's a really important question. Right. And so with low margin returns for a high network, a high earning group, like we're talking to, that means that you probably are going to need multiple units to do that. Right. And so you have to run it through that analysis that I feel, really feel compelled to offer at this point though.

What I find is no matter where you end up in relation to the day to day operations, the best franchisees have a really deep proximity to the work on day one. like I really, truly I will caution the person that's like, I'm going to buy one fill in the blank and I'm never going to go into it. I'm not going to know how to ring someone up at that unit. I'm not going to know how to do the product. Teams not going to know me. I'm just going to be this silent for now. Like I would question that. And even if you were going to come out the gate with 50, because I'll just tell you, you know,

Some of my franchisees and both concepts have been the largest franchisees in the world. And I will see them at the front desk. I will see them at a cash register. And it's just important because when you want to lead something, be it a single unit or lead it at scale, there's a depth of knowledge and understanding and proximity that I think is really important. And so I just invite people to not look at it as how quickly can I be removed from the work and having my hands in the mud? I just don't think it's a safe approach if I'm honest with you. So then what I'd say is

You know, if it's if it's a the usually the smaller the return, the more likely is you're to have have your hands on it because if it's a, you know, think about think about a P&L, right? You can only load so much cost in the middle of it if the returns are already thin. So like you may not be able to pay a unit level manager and have it throw off for you what you need to throw off if you're trying to get out of your job day to day. Right. So, you know, one thing to think about is like.

Again, it's that threshold question. Do I need it to be my job? Because it's very easy to buy yourself a job and not realize it. Right. And if you buy yourself a job that's like for an audience like this, that's not actual income replacement, then your question really needs to be what is my viable path to scale? How do I make that scale so this can actually be that? And it likely looks like working in that unit, building and growing a team while in the background, making sure to give a capital plan to get to units two, three, four, five, six, but somebody little point of time.

And then need to ask yourself, well, how long does it take to build this? Or can I actually acquire it? Will the franchise or let me grow that fast and then plot that and then run it back against where you are today and see if those things line up. So your expectations aren't subverted. And that's not to be discouraged. It was just to be really honest. I see in incredibly high margin concepts and in lower margin concepts, it can be the same question. And the way through I've always seen is like first deep proximity and then an understanding of what's my

one year, three year, five year plan, and how many units do I need to support the reality that I want to be real for myself? So basically have your long-term plan upfront thought through and then two, hands off as a misnomer. That's just, cause even if it were true, you're fighting for talent, right? Even if you want somebody to able to run your store, how could you out-compete someone who is more active, right? Getting to know people and building a culture there.

You just wouldn't be able to survive against someone else who is really hands on and kind of understanding the nuances of the business. So this idea of hands off is not one that people should believe is feasible in most cases, if you're getting into the franchising game. And you're going to miss stuff, right? Like you need to learn your business, whatever it is, you need to learn it, right? And so the way you learn it is to work it. Yeah, bottom line. OK, so let's talk about friction points, right? So now I'm in there.

I got my concept. have my long term plan. Now I'm operating as a franchisee. I come in excited, right? And I started to bump up against, you know, some of the inevitabilities that come with a marriage. And I would call a franchisee franchise, franchise or relationship, marriage, right? you've seen it all just lay out for us what, you know, it would be beneficial for us to know based on what you've seen and maybe how we should be thinking about these things upfront. So we're not caught with our

hands down, so to speak, and was reasonable to expect, was not reasonable to expect in this relationship. Maybe the easiest way to explain it is what I wish either what I wish franchisees knew or what I want franchisees to know that I expect. I think a lot of franchisors would agree with this. So I talked a ton Brandon about the three C's. It's the right level of capability, the right level of capital, the right level of commitment.

When one of those three things gets wobbly, that's when you inevitably have friction with your franchise or the most capital one is we've spent a ton of time talking about. It's like, obviously, when you get in the beginning of a relationship there, we have an expert. A franchise or you have an expectation that you have sufficient working capital that you can meet a development obligation if you sign one. And if things aren't working well, that you'll be able to get it fixed. Right. Like the capital stuff is what it is. So like having enough capital to literally meet the obligations that we expect. think the capability and the commitment ones are where

the friction points spark sort of most instantly. So capability is this idea of your combination of people and processes to be excellent with the product. There's just a fundamental expectation that I have. Like when I'm a franchisor, the elegant thing is you get to grow through someone else's capital. The tough part is you have to grow through someone else's capital. And that's a risk to a franchisor as well, right? So capability is critically important. That's your ability to block and tackle and to not be bored with doing the little things incredibly well.

to not be bored by being the filliest, cleanest unit on the block, to not be bored by hitting the brand standards and the metrics and the KPIs that I put in front of you. Your ability to be repeatably excellent and have a model that makes a ton of sense. When that stuff gets off, now you're like messing with what we're trying to do. And more importantly, it's not just friction with the franchise or it can be friction with fellow franchisees because what happens in a unit in Omaha affects what's happened to a unit in Orlando if it's all the same brand.

So the capability piece is really critically important. It's easy to get off sides with everybody. If you don't understand that, you know, structure around it, you don't have a culture to support that. The last one is commitment, though. And in commitment, it looks like I've alluded to development obligations. Like if you come into a brand and the math works out and people believe, OK, you're going to do three units over the next five years, five years over the next 10 years. When you show that you're not going to do that or you're not resource to do that, you don't take the appropriate steps to do that immediately. Immediate tension.

because a franchise or is building into its growth algorithm. The expectation that you're going to meet that obligation. They only brought you in because they believe that you can get it done. Right. And so when that stuff gets to wobble, it's weird. The other thing in commitment, though, is like a franchise or will oftentimes say, man, this is what best in class looks like. So we really recommend that you execute at executing this way at the unit level. Do this or do this practice or spend on marketing this way or do that. Right. And what a franchise or is looking for is

the commitment from a franchisee to say, you know what, if you're reasonably diligent franchisor, you're going to ask things of me that should be accretive to me as well. And it's going to net a return for me as well. And you and your standard is designed to lift all boats. Having to demonstrate the commitment to walk in that reality is critically important, because if you're the one squeaky wheel, you're the one person that's not marched on that. has the potential to be a real damper on on brand integrity, on brand strength, on brand voice, all sorts of things. So

Those three C's for me are the fundamental building block of a successful franchise system. And most problems and most things that go really well sit in one of those three buckets in my experience. So let's say there's 10 franchises, right? Yeah. Give us a percentage breakdown of.

the ones that are going to the moon, the ones that are just kind of milling there to kind of middle of the road, it is what it is. And then the ones that you ultimately, it's not gonna work. They end up kind of detaching. What do you think is like kind of a rough realistic approximation based on what you've seen?

Well, mean, look, I'm not trying to duck the answer, but based on what I've seen, it really varies really widely. So got 100, 100. me some sense of what, you know, how many folks are just like, hey, this isn't working for either either of these, you know, here's what I would say, right? People that just completely need to wash out year over year, like that is not the lion's share of what you see in the system.

But it's also a real thing. Like the tail that gets cut is a very real thing. I have seen in other cases where, you know, you may see a 10 % failure rate over time. I've seen in some cases where, you know, there's some brands in QSR where the failure rate is like 5%, right? So it really does go back to your personality. Did you find the right thing for you? And then what I said, these watch outs are for with brands like discipline, growth, strong operator support, right?

So I think part of the spirit of your question is we want people to fully appreciate that the risk is real, but it's not like everybody's going to fail. I don't believe that coming into franchising, it's like, you know, a restaurant fails every day, whatever that stat is that you hear from an entrepreneur perspective. I don't think it's like that. But the idea of being turned out is real. And if you literally you can go back to the FDD, you can look in FDDs and you can see each franchisee, each franchisers churn rate.

And you'll see that it's, it varies widely, which is why I'm giving you that answer. Cause there's no rule of thumb around that, but it's a, but it is a real risk for folks that are executing the concept the right way. what happens when a franchise situation doesn't work out? Like how does that, how does that detachment work? Yeah. mean, it depends on how a brand wants to handle it. Sometimes someone could ask you to close the unit. Someone could ask you to sell the unit. Like those are probably the simplest ways to go about it. Sometimes it's like, all right.

It's like, you know, when you have a job, might put you on a performance improvement plan. Some folks will be like, all right, here are the things that we need to see to believe that this can continue on. But if someone's needing to exit, it's most likely, you know, someone has decided to terminate a franchise agreement or someone's been like, you know what, rather than terminate this franchise agreement, why don't you get out of the unit that you have for value to someone that we think will take it and do the right thing with it? OK, so we're in this world of AI automation. You know, it's it's we're living in exponential times.

What is the intersection of what is happening there in the space as you see it? So a lot of folks here are embracing that change. They're the most likely to want to implement that change. Maybe there's a little bit of frustration around their ability to, implement some things that they think could add value. Tell us a little bit more around how innovation meets kind of structure and the franchise model. Yeah, it's, mean, AI is a really great example. It's it's game on with it right now. And so the people that are resisting it are

going to find themselves in a world of trouble. And the people that are embracing it are going to find themselves with an opportunity at least to to to be differentiated. I think there and if you look in in concepts now at the franchise level or at the franchisee level as a franchise or so franchisees, I see franchisees doing sorts of interesting things as well around like how can I use it to get really sharp around my voice customer? How can I use it to help me answer calls at the unit level? How can I use it to do that? But I would say you're big

The one of the biggest opportunities that you're seeing right now is capturing at the top of the funnel. However, it works to get people into your bucket as a brand. And that's something that's shared by a franchise or the franchisee. Like everybody can more effectively capture the initial form of interest, be it a lead, be it a walk in, be it a whatever. And then the next one is how do you make it easier to run your concepts? Human capital is so critically important in every franchise concept I can think of.

And so there are live, actually applications that people are working on. That's like, how do I make it much easier to do a better job of running this concept? I think that people that hack that are going to be the ones that really accelerate because you think about all that we've talked about. really goes back to this idea of either because the franchisee teach you up so well, because it's inherent in your DNA. You got the systems in place. It is how repeatedly excellent can you be at the unit level from a blocking, tackling perspective? Like day after day after day, can you be great? And AI has some

interesting opportunities for people to advance there. We're going to wrap it up. And this question is really around someone who I've seen through your LinkedIn posts. You're kind of at the frontier of international expansion for Crunch. I'm sure there's innovation in capturing leads, et cetera, through the latest tools, et cetera. What is your take on the future of franchising? And we talked about this idea of

being future forward, a few, few. How's the folks be thinking about the future of franchising? I think it's incredibly bright and I think that it doesn't have real borders. I think with the right concept, the right execution play, the right partner, the right brand has a chance to win anywhere. And that's what you're seeing with us in India. You're going to see it in lot of other interesting places later this year. So I think it's really bullish so long as people are shocked by their point of view, who they partner with and how they're to bring that to life.

Last words for folks that are that are, you know, heard you speak in there. They're really seriously exploring making this move. You know, what last words would you share with them before we depart? Yeah, don't don't let what you haven't seen block what could be possible for you. And I say that just because I think about again, us back at Howard, we weren't equipped to have this conversation that we're having now. Right. And so on the other side of either information asymmetries or information that you don't have.

could be something that's really special for you. So be diligent, be intentional, give yourself a shot at it, ask hard questions and don't be afraid to take some level of informed risk because when that's in the soil is why I've seen people do things that have generated life changing results for them and their family. There you have it. Brother Chequan Lewis, appreciate you taking the time. Congratulations on your success over at Crunch. You know, excited to see what you're going to do next. Everybody give.

brother Chequan a virtual round of applause and we'll be in touch soon man see you at Charter Day. Appreciate it man thanks for doing this everybody have a